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mc_english_kent01

Recording date1975
Speaker age85
Speaker sexm
Text genrepersonal narrative
Extended corpusyes
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**** Yes, well, my name's Alistair **** I'm, I was born at Selling Church in Innit? [INTERVIEWER] **** That's right. **** You're eighty-eight now. **** My father was a shepherd, under a Mr North, **** He left there **** and **** went to Sittingbourne, shepherd for Mr Trawley at [INTERWIEVER] Hhm. **** When I was four years old, **** the only recollection **** I got **** now, **** is **** riding in the back of an old waggon with my mother and my brother and sister, **** coming **** to live at the house at Molash. **** And we lived in that house for six years, **** then **** moved up into the Molash **** village, **** and took the shop, the little village shop, **** Mother **** did, and ran **** My father was a ca-- **** horse **** dealer, started **** horse dealing, and he gradually got a good name for **** And the, the tradespeople came to him from Faversham, Canterbury and all round, for him **** to find'em a pony or a horse **** to do their business with their cart, see. **** And eh, he used to go **** and **** buy these ponies off farms and **** wherever he could hear about one. **** And us boys used to have to ride'em, **** see **** if they was safe **** to ride; **** drive'em, **** see **** whether they were genuine on the road. **** Some of'em shied **** when they see a bit of paper. **** Well, it wouldn't do **** to sell a tradesman a horse **** that **** shot one side and -- **** And **** if he got one **** that **** wasn't genuine, **** he used to send it to a man at Folkestone, **** we used to call Slippery **** And he used to generally give him **** what it cost, **** so he didn't lose too much money. **** That was agreed between them. **** And **** what he done with them, **** I think, **** they went to France for meat. **** They eat a lot of horse meat in France, **** see, and I **** think these **** horses **** that wasn't **** genuine, what you couldn't **** recommend, they was shipped over to **** 'Cause he lived at Folkestone, **** and I know **** my father then, he used to buy a lot of ferrets. **** You know **** what a ferret is? **** And they all used to be shipped France. **** He used to get a-- oh, perhaps twenty on the farm, **** and us boys had to feed'em. **** And the devils used to bite us! **** You know, **** when we put the grub into'em, **** they'd grab for their food **** -- bread and milk they used to **** have -- and they used to grab **** your hand, if you **** So my brother used to take an old rope, up the other side of the hutch **** and **** shake it like that, **** and they used to run over there, **** while I put the food in. **** And eh, that's the way **** we used to -- do **** it, and **** then when he got about **** twenty, they used to, this chap he **** used to -- well, he lived at West Well, Wheel, West Well, **** You know it? **** And he used to take'em to France. **** And they used to turn'em down wild out there **** for **** to destroy the vermin, in the forests. [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. **** And Father had that job, **** and then he took a contract with G. Webb and Company, **** poulterers, at Canterbury, to supply'em with so many head of **** And us boys used to go round the farms, **** and he used to give us sovereigns; **** and always golden sovereigns it was, and sh-- **** silver; **** and go **** round, he used tell **** us **** what to give for these chicken and old **** The old hens he used to send to London; **** we used to put'em on rail, **** and the chicken we used to take to Webb's, at Canterbury, poultry **** He'd take anything up to two hundred a [INTERVIEWER] **** How did you used to get about the countryside? **** Well, you'd ride the pony and cart. [INTERVIEWER] **** Even as a kid? **** We used to keep two ponies, Father did, **** and he got a four-wheel van and a two-wheel cart. **** And we got a pig cart, with a little tiny hole in the **** back, so **** as, when you bought small **** pigs, you whip'em through the hole, **** see, if you put your tailboard **** down, while you put one **** in, one would jump out, **** So these, it was made like that. **** That you'd just open it **** and **** put your pig in, see **** -- he had net over the **** top, so he couldn't get **** And eh, I, well, **** as I was saying, **** at twelve years old, the first job **** he gave me **** was: **** go down to Court's, at Fisher **** Street -- you know where Just out here, Jack **** Court's **** -- and pick up twelve pigs, **** little **** pigs, **** and take **** That was the first job **** I done, with a pony. **** And I took the van down there, **** and I collected these pigs. **** He said, **** take'em to Ashford **** Market, **** and put'em in Haynes's **** I'll be down there, **** I got to go to Stalisfield for some calves. **** So, **** as I was going in Ashford **** Market -- **** I'd been with him dozens **** of times like before I **** done work, I knew the way **** and all -- as I was going **** in the market, some man come **** up to **** me, he says, Where you gonna take **** I said, in the market, **** and he said, whose auction? **** I says, Ford **** Go **** and **** put them in mine, **** he says, **** here's threepence. **** In Haynes's, **** put them in the first place **** you come to, **** he says. **** So, I took this threepence, **** and **** done **** as I was told, **** put them in the first place **** I come to. **** **** Well, my father was **** -- I put the pony **** away, he always used to have two st-- two stables up at Merrill's, **** eh Me-- Merrill's yard; he used to hire'em every **** Tues-- every Tuesday the year **** And I put the pony out there, **** walked back down the b-- Bank Street to **** the market, and my father was **** He says, **** I can't find those pigs. **** Says, **** where are they? **** I said, **** here they are. **** And I showed'im. **** He's, **** didn't I tell you **** to put them in Ford **** I said, **** Well, some bloke give me threepence **** to put them in there, **** he said, **** Well, that's Mr **** And he boxed my ears, **** and he said, **** now **** shift'em! **** That was the first experience **** of **** going to Ashford **** Market, and I told that to Mr Haynes not more than six months ago Yeah. [INTERVIEWER] **** Hhm. What, was there rivalry between these? Heh? [INTERVIEWER] **** Was there rivalry between Haynes? Oh, yes, yes. **** Opposite to one another, see. Yeah. [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. **** And anyway, I had to, **** well, 'course, I got these twelve pigs **** to shift, **** and Ford Thorps sent a man **** up to help **** me do it, **** Father wouldn't help me, you know. **** He said, **** no, **** shift'em. **** And you'll earn that threepence, **** he says. **** And that's the way **** I started work. **** And gradually, we got into a way **** of **** riding these ponies **** and, all the-- wicked, you'd never believe **** what horses can do, **** if they're not broken properly. **** If they're not broken properly, **** when they're young. **** We've had'em. **** I, he, he come home with a cob one day, **** that was a beautiful-looking thing. **** I was about fifteen. **** And he says, **** Put tha' pony in, **** he says, and **** -- In the **** cart, **** and let's try **** him, he **** says, I want that for Tom Smith **** at Faversham, if it **** And eh, so I put this pony in the cart. **** Hadn't got out the gate, **** I said, **** this is a napper. **** He says, **** you think so?, **** I says, **** I can see **** it is. **** **** I looked at his old ears. **** And I was a-- only about fifteen to **** You could see his ears **** coming back **** -- when a horse lays his ears **** back, you **** know he means **** He's up to some trick. **** And he got out in the road, **** stopped dead, **** Father well he was **** -- and he wouldn't go no further, you **** And I can see my father now; **** he always had a ash stick, crooked **** ash stick; **** he's left-handed -- and he stood up in the -- alongside the -- alongside **** of the eh eh van, and he hit that horse -- **** pony up the ribs as hard as he **** could hit him with **** his stick, and the pony jumped, and **** the thirlpin of the van **** snapped, we dropped in the road, and **** the pony went up the road, and I never, oh I never done [INTERVIEWER] **** How did you get him back? **** Oh, **** catched him, **** well, we went after him, **** catched him. **** Got out, **** put another pony in the cart, **** and **** went **** and **** fetched him. [INTERVIEWER] **** Whose job was it to break these horses then? **** Well, wherever w--, we didn't **** know who broke **** them; we bought **** them -- they warranted **** them, see, they -- they **** was all rogues, horse **** They'd warrant it; **** they, **** long as they got them sovereigns **** and **** got rid of their horse, **** they was landed. **** Wadn't no law. **** See, you couldn't take a man to court for that job, not them days. **** Eh, that was a tricky job. [INTERVIEWER] **** What sort of places did he, did he buy from then? **** Ooh, farms or dealers or anybody. **** Dealers, most of'em. **** We had a lot of horses out of London, **** what was-- **** they break their horses in London. **** They only last in London two year, you know, on -- them **** This's slippery, you know, and smooth, **** and then got, they used to put two ton behind one big horse, you know. **** Didn't want no pulling, only starting and stopping, you see. **** And it took it so much out of the horse's legs, **** the horse's front legs used to go over like that **** Then they, we used to buy them, **** they used to come back on the farms, **** and they used to recover. **** 'Cause they were only six, seven year old, you see. **** Then we used to get'em **** used to farmwork **** and then **** sell them to the farmers round about. [INTERVIEWER] **** How did you bring them down from London? Huh? [INTERVIEWER] **** Di-- **** Walk'em! [INTERVIEWER] **** All the way? **** How, how other could you bring them? **** No, all -- there were chaps up **** there used ehr-- to bring them down, at the **** mart, and they used to **** say, where you wanna go **** And we used tell'em, Close Faversham. **** And, **** oh, I know that, **** and perhaps he'd bring about four, down, see? **** Em-- pe-- for other buyer -- perhaps **** we'd buy two, and another **** farmer b-- buy one; they used **** to come down together; perhaps two or three of them used to come down and, with about a dozen old **** horses, out of London; **** stop **** at every pub, time **** they got down here, they was Yeah. [INTERVIEWER] **** Couldn't they bring them on the train? No. **** They couldn't have them on a train; **** be like the donkey -- gypsy of the -- what's the name, **** I say it'd be like the gypsy's donkey, wouldn't [INTERVIEWER] **** What's that? Gypsy's? Donkey. **** Two old gypsies bought a -- got a donkey up in Lon--, bought a donkey in London, you know, or a, in a **** town somewhere, and it -- **** they told us that **** And one got the guard, in out the guard's van **** to go **** and **** have a drink with him, **** and he whipped the donkey in the guard's van **** to get it -- get him down on the train, you **** And old guard come back, **** and he tied him on the back. **** And he said, **** I bet **** old Jamie's legging it now. **** And the old train was coming in. Yeah. **** Oh, we've had some fun. **** We made fun of our life. **** We enjoyed my life anyway. [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. **** If I didn't work so hard, **** I'd enjoyed, I'd -- enjoyed **** it till Father took more **** And then **** took me, put me in, in control. **** He, he got too big a business **** to do anything on the farm, **** and he, and he said, **** well, you'll have to look after the farm now, **** and you can look after the horses and that **** when I come home. **** And I was all alone on thirty acres. [INTERVIEWER] **** How old were you then? **** Uhm, sixteen; fifteen, sixteen. [INTERVIEWER] **** It was, it was actually a farm **** he had at Molash, was Hhm? [INTERVIEWER] **** It was actually a farm **** he had? **** Yeah, he bought it. **** He bought it off the eh, **** when they sold the outlying farms, from eh Eastwell [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. Lord [INTERVIEWER] **** This would be about, eighteen-nineties? Oohh. [INTERVIEWER] **** How old were you? Hhm? [INTERVIEWER] **** How old were you, for-- **** Well, it was, **** I was about fifteen. See? [INTERVIEWER] **** What had he had for his horse premises before? You Hhm? [INTERVIEWER] **** What had he, what'd he started off as, as a horse **** Oh, he, he had these little m-- ponies in the other place, over the **** road; we had two places **** And he, the house **** we come in **** first, **** we didn't stop long. **** Wadn't big, **** it was only about acre of ground, **** and then we bought this farm **** were up for sale, **** and we went over there **** -- bought [INTERVIEWER] **** Where did he get the money from, **** if he'd only been a, a shepherd? Did he-- **** Where did they get it? **** Saved it. **** Mother worked in, eh-- worked hard. **** And we all worked. **** And you didn't spend threepence, **** where tuppence would do, you know. **** Well, what's your farm cost? [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. **** Three cottages, and thirty-one acres -- five-hundred **** How was that then? Three cottages. **** Oh, I think **** the bank or, somebody helped mi dad with the money. **** Mother did, **** I know, **** Mother was very thrifty. **** She'd got quite a bit of money, **** and just like my wife: don't let... **** He's just the same. **** She's just the same. **** Put your foot on that. [INTERVIEWER] **** How did your father start off dealing? **** Where did he get the contacts? **** Do you know that? **** In a pub. **** All the business was done in pubs. **** They was open all day, you know. **** It was never closed. **** Six o'clock, you go in the pub at six o'clock **** and **** get some beer, **** and you go in there at twelve o'clock **** and **** get some beer; **** nobody said nothing about it. **** And we'd go on a farm, **** and perhaps somebody s-- like the grapevine would come to my **** father that John Norman had got a pony **** My father'd slip up, **** get a pony in, **** go off, **** and **** have a look at this pony. **** Got a pony for sale, John? **** He said, yep. **** He says, **** have a look at him, **** try him. **** Warrant him? Yeah. Every way? **** If Father knowed the man, **** he'd know **** his warranty was good. **** If he, he'd know **** if it wadn't, **** too. **** Well, **** put him in, **** let's try him. **** So they'd put this pony in the harness, **** try him, **** drive him up and down the road. **** And my father'd have all manners of tricks. **** When he g--, as he **** says, Drive him by **** me, he whip a white handkerchief **** out **** and shake **** it; **** and if the pony didn't take **** notice, he wadn't a See? **** And, eh, he said, **** drive him by his farm -- his **** house, where he'd **** Now this, in nine horses out of ten, **** if you'd try **** to drive them by **** where they st--, their home **** was, where they'd **** been, they'd pull in, you **** know, **** try to go in the **** And eh, but **** if you just touch'em that side with the whip gently **** -- had a long **** whip, always had a **** whip -- just touch'em **** that side, they go **** They knowed. **** If they didn't, **** they'd have it **** slashed up their ribs quick. **** And the horses were very sensitive. **** My father then, he, he bought a waggonette. **** You know **** what that is? **** A four-wheeled trap for taking people to station. **** And we had quite a business. **** People would ge-- the old parson always used to get **** us to take him, out to some other parson, house to tea and lunch and **** And I, I used to drive him, **** just dress miself up **** and **** drive him there, **** and perhaps **** earn ten bob. **** We used take people to Chilham Station from Molash for half a **** Take'em down there. **** Or **** go **** and **** fetch them back for half a crown. **** And gradually we built a business up, **** and **** had quite a smart turnout, my father did. **** And I used to look after that as well **** when he was gone. **** Well then we used to keep a grey pony **** -- our Jimmy, we used to call **** him -- he was a, **** a pony we used to use for **** Take people to rr--, when they got married, **** see, **** If it wasn't only the half a mile, **** we used take old -- the old pony to Hhm. **** You know **** where Molash Church [INTERVIEWER] **** Not quite. **** Oh, I did, I was in the choir for eleven year, at Molash **** I sang in the choir. **** Pretty near all the boys was -- really religious, you know, their **** parents -- there wadn't **** the crime there Nothing like. **** Well, there wadn't the population, was [INTERVIEWER] **** Could I ask you about the house, horse dealing **** again? Did you ever go up to London with your Hhm? No. [INTERVIEWER] **** Did you... You never went? No. **** No, I never went, to London, no. [INTERVIEWER] **** Did he ever tell you tales about it? **** We used to eh, they eh, we used to have a, in April, **** I think **** it was in April every year, **** the eh yeomanry. **** You've heard of the yeomanry, have **** They used to, the farmers' sons, used to hire a horse off Father, **** for **** to ride **** in the yeomanry. **** They had to go up for a fortnight's training, see. **** So Father used to get quite three four of these horses about, **** and **** buy them purpose for the job. **** Charge'em five pound for a fortnight. **** 'at was a lot of money. **** But, perhaps the horse wasn't much good time **** they done with it. **** And eh, me and my brother had to make sure **** these horses would, would take the saddle, see, **** there're some horses **** didn't like people on their backs, you see; **** never had nobody on their back. **** And Father used to put saddle on'em, and, **** Go on up **** there you go, **** and **** bunt us up on'em, **** and off we used to go **** -- sometimes we fell **** off, sometimes we went off at a **** gallop **** and didn't **** know **** how to **** stop **** and had all manner of Hhm. **** Anyway, I was riding one one day **** -- Father put me up on **** He says, **** walk him down the field, **** he says, **** and **** gallop back. **** So, I walked him down the field, **** and he walked quite sure **** and **** galloped back, **** and there was a sheep hurdle in the See? **** And the blooming thing went straight for this sheep **** hurdle **** and jumped **** Did jar, **** pretty near jarred my inside out **** when he landed. **** I'll never forget it, **** I wasn't very old then; **** I must have been about fifteen. **** And Father says, **** he'll do. **** And that were just the horse, for the yeomanry, you see. [INTERVIEWER] **** Hhm. Who, who were the people **** that's hired them up, the...? **** Oh, farmers' sons, yes -- Tim Fennel from Faversham, people from **** Tim Fennel from Faversham **** knew, he belonged to **** it, and he **** tried to get me **** Stan Howl he belonged to **** He was at Drylands, Molash. **** I used to have to always find him one; **** he used to find Tim Fennel **** Andy Fennel his brother, he used to have **** Oh, we used to buy abouts... **** I think **** we had six, about six customers. **** And they were a year occurrence, you see. For several years, **** I don't know, **** it finished up **** when the 'Fourteen War come, **** That's **** when it finished. [INTERVIEWER] **** Did he ever sell horses for things like hunting, or? **** No, the old farmers used to own their own horses, **** didn't keep the horse. **** Now this place here, they kept a hunter here. **** But it worked on the farm all the year, **** and then they used to go out **** hunting, **** and that's **** what broke the man, **** 'cause his son went **** hunting **** and got, **** he was, he's come down from Scotland, this man **** what had this farm before me; **** he had it twenty-six years. **** And he told me **** that he, he'd got three thousand **** pound, when he come down here, from **** Scotland, and he **** says, now, Mr Crown, I haven't got **** And I've been here twenty-six years. **** And I we-- sa--, **** he says, and I've **** got nowhere **** I says, **** well, you can go over in one of my cottages, **** I says, **** and **** stop there **** as long as you like rent-free. **** And that's **** where he went **** and that's **** where he died. **** 'Cause we wanted him out the house **** to get the house **** done up, **** you see, **** to repair the house **** -- it was in an awful **** I planted all these hedges. **** I planted that orchard. **** This house just stood in a meadow, **** and the cattle and sheep used to lay in the porch, **** where you come through. **** And I laid the lawns **** and **** done it all. **** I never asked Lord Sourstone for a [INTERVIEWER] **** How come he'd, he'd eh done so badly? Hhm? [INTERVIEWER] **** How'd, how come he'd done so badly? He? [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. Did he have the... **** His son started **** hunting. **** And then it was wine and women. **** And he kept a hunter here, **** and he, he would do-- **** his wife, his son's wife was a better man **** than ever he was **** -- she'd **** But Haggary **** -- that was the owner of the farm, the tenant of the **** farm -- **** he was, what shall **** I say -- **** He was honest, straight man, **** but he'd got no gumption **** of how to do a job. See? **** He wouldn't, I've, he, **** there was a little box there, **** when I come here first, with the eh, with my eh valuer, **** and not -- it, that box struck me **** I sit there at the table. **** I said, **** Mr Haggary, what's that little box for up **** He says **** -- he's **** Scotch -- **** he says, that, **** Mr Crown, is where I keep mi guid **** And so he kept his bible in that little box. **** I take it down every night, **** he says, **** and **** read a chapter. Ha. **** Now he's the sort of man that would rather, **** he wouldn't miss **** going to church, **** if the old cow was calving. **** Well you can't farm that ways. **** You see **** the cow's alright, **** then **** go to church afterwards. **** And if she wadn't alright, **** you'd go pray for your sins, couldn't **** And it was just the same the other farm **** I took, before this. **** He was a chapel **** man; he was **** And they let me **** have that farm three years rent-free, **** for **** to put it in order. **** As soon as I'd got it in tip-top condition **** they charged me top rent for it. **** That's **** how they did this. **** I offered them a hundred eighty pound a year for this **** farm, when I come **** here, and now we're paying over two thousand, Huh? **** That's hardly fair, you know, **** after you'd done all that, is **** I told'em so. **** They ain't kept up their agreements, their verbal agreement; **** when we were boys and men, **** my word was mi bond. **** And **** always has been. **** **** But -- it **** was with the l-- tenants before the agents, before this **** But theirs **** isn't. **** **** If you ain't got it in writing, **** they don't take no notice. [INTERVIEWER] Did it always used to be verbal then, all the agreements with between the tenant-- **** Yes, we never used to dream about **** signing anything, **** or **** writing anything, or **** -- five, five out of six of'em couldn't **** My father, he couldn't read his own name; **** couldn't write his own name. **** I can remember **** when I was, **** the Boer War was **** on -- that's going back **** My father used to come home from at Canterbury Market, or from town, with a little old **** paper, he give a penny **** for, so that I could read out to **** him what happened in the **** I can remember that as well... [INTERVIEWER] **** Did he ever keep any records of his dealings then? Your father? **** My father, never, no -- how could he? Only [INTERVIEWER] **** In his head. Yeah. [INTERVIEWER] Hhm. **** That's **** where I kept mine, **** until it got so big; **** then I used to have a Collin's **** Ooh, that's on here. Oh--
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