mc_english_kent01

Yes, well, my name's Alistair Crown.

Yes, well, my name's Alistair Crown.

I was born at Selling Church in eighteen eighty-seven.

I'm, I was born at Selling Church in eighteen eighty-seven.

Innit?

Innit?

[INTERVIEWER] That's right. You're eighty-eight now.

[INTERVIEWER] That's right. You're eighty-eight now.

My father was a shepherd, under a Mr North, Sean North.

My father was a shepherd, under a Mr North, Sean North.

He left there and went to Sittingbourne, shepherd for Mr Trawley at Rodmersham.

He left there and went to Sittingbourne, shepherd for Mr Trawley at Rodmersham.

[INTERWIEVER] Hhm.

[INTERWIEVER] Hhm.

When I was four years old, the only recollection I got now, is riding in the back of an old waggon with my mother and my brother and sister, coming to live at the house at Molash.

When I was four years old, the only recollection I got now, is riding in the back of an old waggon with my mother and my brother and sister, coming to live at the house at Molash.

And we lived in that house for six years, then moved up into the Molash village, and took the shop, the little village shop, mother did, and ran the post office.

And we lived in that house for six years, then moved up into the Molash village, and took the shop, the little village shop, Mother did, and ran the post office.

My father was a horse dealer, (he) started horse dealing, and he gradually got a good name for genuine business.

My father was a ca-- horse dealer, started horse dealing, and he gradually got a good name for genuine business.

And the tradespeople came to him from Faversham, Canterbury and all round, for him to find'em a pony or a horse to do their business with their cart, see.

And the, the tradespeople came to him from Faversham, Canterbury and all round, for him to find'em a pony or a horse to do their business with their cart, see.

And he used to go and buy these ponies off farms and wherever he could hear about one.

And eh, he used to go and buy these ponies off farms and wherever he could hear about one.

And us boys used to have to ride'em, see if they was safe to ride; drive'em, see whether they were genuine on the road.

And us boys used to have to ride'em, see if they was safe to ride; drive'em, see whether they were genuine on the road.

Some of'em shied when they see a bit of paper.

Some of'em shied when they see a bit of paper.

Well, it wouldn't do to sell a tradesman a horse that shot one side and -- would it?

Well, it wouldn't do to sell a tradesman a horse that shot one side and -- would it?

And if he got one that wasn't genuine, he used to send it to a man at Folkestone, we used to call Slippery Joe.

And if he got one that wasn't genuine, he used to send it to a man at Folkestone, we used to call Slippery Joe.

And he used to generally give him what it cost, so he didn't lose too much money.

And he used to generally give him what it cost, so he didn't lose too much money.

That was agreed between them.

That was agreed between them.

And what he done with them, I think, they went to France for meat.

And what he done with them, I think, they went to France for meat.

They eat a lot of horse meat in France, see, and I think these horses that wasn't genuine, what you couldn't recommend, they was shipped over to France.

They eat a lot of horse meat in France, see, and I think these horses that wasn't genuine, what you couldn't recommend, they was shipped over to France.

'Cause he lived at Folkestone, and I know my father then, he used to buy a lot of ferrets.

'Cause he lived at Folkestone, and I know my father then, he used to buy a lot of ferrets.

You know what a ferret is?

You know what a ferret is?

And they all used to be shipped France.

And they all used to be shipped France.

He used to get, oh, perhaps twenty on the farm, and us boys had to feed'em.

He used to get a-- oh, perhaps twenty on the farm, and us boys had to feed'em.

And the devils used to bite us! You know, when we put the grub into'em, they'd grab for their food -- bread and milk they used to have -- and they used to grab your hand, if you wadn't careful.

And the devils used to bite us! You know, when we put the grub into'em, they'd grab for their food -- bread and milk they used to have -- and they used to grab your hand, if you wadn't careful.

So my brother used to take an old rope, up the other side of the hutch and shake it like that, and they used to run over there, while I put the food in.

So my brother used to take an old rope, up the other side of the hutch and shake it like that, and they used to run over there, while I put the food in.

And eh, that's the way we used to do it, and then when he got about twenty, this chap he used to -- well, he lived at West Well, The Wheel, the pub.

And eh, that's the way we used to -- do it, and then when he got about twenty, they used to, this chap he used to -- well, he lived at West Well, Wheel, West Well, The Wheel, at West Well, the pub.

You know it?

You know it?

And he used to take'em to France.

And he used to take'em to France.

And they used to turn'em down wild out there for to destroy the vermin, in the forests.

And they used to turn'em down wild out there for to destroy the vermin, in the forests.

[INTERVIEWER] Hhm.

[INTERVIEWER] Hhm.

And father had that job, and then he took a contract with G. Webb and Company, poulterers, at Canterbury, to supply'em with so many head of poultry a week.

And Father had that job, and then he took a contract with G. Webb and Company, poulterers, at Canterbury, to supply'em with so many head of poultry a week.

And us boys used to go round the farms, and he used to give us sovereigns; and always golden sovereigns it was, and silver; and go round, he used tell us what to give for these chicken and old hens.

And us boys used to go round the farms, and he used to give us sovereigns; and always golden sovereigns it was, and sh-- silver; and go round, he used tell us what to give for these chicken and old hens.

The old hens he used to send to London; we used to put'em on rail, and the chicken we used to take to Webb's, at Canterbury, poultry shop.

The old hens he used to send to London; we used to put'em on rail, and the chicken we used to take to Webb's, at Canterbury, poultry shop.

He'd take anything up to two hundred a week.

He'd take anything up to two hundred a week.

[INTERVIEWER] How did you used to get about the countryside?

[INTERVIEWER] How did you used to get about the countryside?

Well, you'd ride the pony and cart.

Well, you'd ride the pony and cart.

[INTERVIEWER] Even as a kid?

[INTERVIEWER] Even as a kid?

We used to keep two ponies, father did, and he got a four-wheel van and a two-wheel cart.

We used to keep two ponies, Father did, and he got a four-wheel van and a two-wheel cart.

And we got a pig cart, with a little tiny hole in the back, so as, when you bought small pigs, you whip'em through the hole, see, if you put your tailboard down, while you put one in, one would jump out, wouldn't it?

And we got a pig cart, with a little tiny hole in the back, so as, when you bought small pigs, you whip'em through the hole, see, if you put your tailboard down, while you put one in, one would jump out, wouldn't it?

So these, it was made like that.

So these, it was made like that.

That you'd just open it and put your pig in, see -- he had net over the top, so he couldn't get out.

That you'd just open it and put your pig in, see -- he had net over the top, so he couldn't get out.

And eh, I, well, as I was saying, at twelve years old, the first job he gave me was: go down to Court's, at Fisher Street -- you know where that is?

And eh, I, well, as I was saying, at twelve years old, the first job he gave me was: go down to Court's, at Fisher Street -- you know where that is?

Just out here, Jack Court's -- and pick up twelve pigs, little pigs, and take to Ashford Market.

Just out here, Jack Court's -- and pick up twelve pigs, little pigs, and take to Ashford Market.

That was the first job I done, with a pony.

That was the first job I done, with a pony.

And I took the van down there, and I collected these pigs.

And I took the van down there, and I collected these pigs.

He said, take'em to Ashford Market, and put'em in Haynes's auction.

He said, take'em to Ashford Market, and put'em in Haynes's auction.

I'll be down there, I got to go to Stalisfield for some calves.

I'll be down there, I got to go to Stalisfield for some calves.

So, as I was going in Ashford Market -- I'd been with him dozens of times like before I done work, I knew the way and all -- as I was going in the market, some man come up to me, he says, Where you gonna take those pigs, boy?

So, as I was going in Ashford Market -- I'd been with him dozens of times like before I done work, I knew the way and all -- as I was going in the market, some man come up to me, he says, Where you gonna take those pigs, boy?

I said, in the market, and he said, whose auction?

I said, in the market, and he said, whose auction?

I says, Ford Thorps.

I says, Ford Thorps.

Go and put them in mine, he says, here's threepence.

Go and put them in mine, he says, here's threepence.

In Haynes's, put them in the first place you come to, he says.

In Haynes's, put them in the first place you come to, he says.

So, I took this threepence, and done as I was told, put them in the first place I come to.

So, I took this threepence, and done as I was told, put them in the first place I come to.

Well, I put the pony away, he always used to have two stables up at Merrill's yard; he used to hire'em every Tuesday the year they reserved'em for him, see.

Well, my father was -- I put the pony away, he always used to have two st-- two stables up at Merrill's, eh Me-- Merrill's yard; he used to hire'em every Tues-- every Tuesday the year they reserved'em for him, see.

And I put the pony out there, walked back down the Bank Street to the market, and my father was in there.

And I put the pony out there, walked back down the b-- Bank Street to the market, and my father was in there.

He says, I can't find those pigs.

He says, I can't find those pigs.

Says, where are they?

Says, where are they?

I said, here they are.

I said, here they are.

And I showed'im.

And I showed'im.

He's, didn't I tell you to put them in Ford Thorps?

He's, didn't I tell you to put them in Ford Thorps?

I said, Well, some bloke give me threepence to put them in there, he said, Well, that's Mr Haynes.

I said, Well, some bloke give me threepence to put them in there, he said, Well, that's Mr Haynes.

And he boxed my ears, and he said, now shift'em!

And he boxed my ears, and he said, now shift'em!

That was the first experience of going to Ashford Market, and I told that to Mr Haynes not more than six months ago -- his grandson.

That was the first experience of going to Ashford Market, and I told that to Mr Haynes not more than six months ago -- his grandson.

Yeah.

Yeah.

[INTERVIEWER] Hhm. What, was there rivalry between these?

[INTERVIEWER] Hhm. What, was there rivalry between these?

Heh?

Heh?

[INTERVIEWER] Was there rivalry between Haynes?

[INTERVIEWER] Was there rivalry between Haynes?

Oh, yes, yes.

Oh, yes, yes.

Opposite to one another, see.

Opposite to one another, see.

Yeah.

Yeah.

[INTERVIEWER] Hhm.

[INTERVIEWER] Hhm.

And anyway, I had to, well, 'course, I got these twelve pigs to shift, and Ford Thorps sent a man up to help me do it, see.

And anyway, I had to, well, 'course, I got these twelve pigs to shift, and Ford Thorps sent a man up to help me do it, see.

Father wouldn't help me, you know.

Father wouldn't help me, you know.

He said, no, shift'em.

He said, no, shift'em.

And you'll earn that threepence, he says.

And you'll earn that threepence, he says.

And that's the way I started work.

And that's the way I started work.

And gradually, we got into a way of riding these ponies and you'd never believe what horses can do, if they're not broken properly.

And gradually, we got into a way of riding these ponies and, all the-- wicked, you'd never believe what horses can do, if they're not broken properly.

If they're not broken properly, when they're young.

If they're not broken properly, when they're young.

We've had'em.

We've had'em.

He come home with a cob one day, that was a beautiful-looking thing.

I, he, he come home with a cob one day, that was a beautiful-looking thing.

I was about fifteen.

I was about fifteen.

And he says, Put tha' pony in, he says, In the cart, and let's try him, he says, I want that for Tom Smith at Faversham, if it suits him.

And he says, Put tha' pony in, he says, and -- In the cart, and let's try him, he says, I want that for Tom Smith at Faversham, if it suits him.

And so I put this pony in the cart.

And eh, so I put this pony in the cart.

Hadn't got out the gate, I said, this is a napper.

Hadn't got out the gate, I said, this is a napper.

He says, you think so?, I says, I can see it is.

He says, you think so?, I says, I can see it is.

I looked at his old ears.

I looked at his old ears.

And I was only about fifteen to sixteen.

And I was a-- only about fifteen to sixteen.

You could see his ears coming back -- when a horse lays his ears back, you know he means business.

You could see his ears coming back -- when a horse lays his ears back, you know he means business.

He's up to some trick.

He's up to some trick.

And he got out in the road, stopped dead, and he wouldn't go no further, you know.

And he got out in the road, stopped dead, Father well he was -- and he wouldn't go no further, you know.

And I can see my father now; he always had a ash stick, crooked ash stick; he's left-handed -- and he stood up in the -- alongside the -- alongside of the eh eh van, and he hit that horse -- pony up the ribs as hard as he could hit him with his stick, and the pony jumped, and the thirlpin of the van snapped, we dropped in the road, and the pony went up the road, and I never, oh I never done so much laughing in my life.

And I can see my father now; he always had a ash stick, crooked ash stick; he's left-handed -- and he stood up in the -- alongside the -- alongside of the eh eh van, and he hit that horse -- pony up the ribs as hard as he could hit him with his stick, and the pony jumped, and the thirlpin of the van snapped, we dropped in the road, and the pony went up the road, and I never, oh I never done so much laughing in my life.

[INTERVIEWER] How did you get him back?

[INTERVIEWER] How did you get him back?

Oh, catched him, well, we went after him, catched him.

Oh, catched him, well, we went after him, catched him.

Got out, put another pony in the cart, and went and fetched him.

Got out, put another pony in the cart, and went and fetched him.

[INTERVIEWER] Whose job was it to break these horses then?

[INTERVIEWER] Whose job was it to break these horses then?

Well, we didn't know who broke them; we bought them -- they warranted them, see, they was all rogues, horse dealers were all rogues.

Well, wherever w--, we didn't know who broke them; we bought them -- they warranted them, see, they -- they was all rogues, horse dealers were all rogues.

They'd warrant it; they, long as they got them sovereigns and got rid of their horse, they was landed.

They'd warrant it; they, long as they got them sovereigns and got rid of their horse, they was landed.

Wadn't no law.

Wadn't no law.

See, you couldn't take a man to court for that job, not them days.

See, you couldn't take a man to court for that job, not them days.